The Big Interview brought to you by our Main Partners
The Leaders Performance Institute asks Joe Montemurro how coaching in both the English and the Italian languages has influenced the way he thinks about football.
“It hasn’t changed my ideas and the way I think about the game, it’s probably more how I deliver the message,” says the Head Coach of Juventus Women.
Montemurro has more than two decades of coaching experience under his belt, including successful spells at Melbourne City in his native Australia and at Arsenal Women in the English Women’s Super League.
Then, in the summer of 2021, he jumped at the chance to take the reins at Juventus Women in Turin, Italy. It offered Montemurro a return to his family’s homeland, a place where he has deep roots and a strong affinity.
“It was just the right job at the right time, I felt, with family here, my ability to culturally understand the day to day aspects of living in Italy, which was important. And like I’m an Arsenal fan I’m a Juventus fan too, so it’s another string to the bow.”
Learning the landscape
How has going from Arsenal to Juventus changed how Montemurro coaches? “I’ve coached in English and Italian since my arrival, probably some days more in Italian. It’s finding that happy balance,” he says. “So while my ideas haven’t really changed there’s a lot more design, even in my training session structure, as it might get lost in translation so it’s better that I show it on the park. It’s probably even made me better as a coach because I’ve been a lot more detailed and a lot more thorough in terms of organising the sessions so that everyone understands them and feels they can be part of it. I can adapt if I see something is not working. It’s obviously harder with the communication scenario but it’s probably made me grow as I’ve been more detailed in making sure we’ve got all the options covered.”
Bringing clarity to his communication has been Montemurro’s most obvious coaching challenge, particularly given the high level of existing understanding amongst his largely Italian playing group. “Their base education is quite astonishing,” he says, “and there seems to be a lot more focus on structure, on tactics, and ideas of the team.”
He explains that there are cultural contrasts too, such as in the ways that Italian players express their passion compared with their Australian or English counterparts. But, as he says: “In the end, the leader has to be clever in ensuring the messages are clear and translated in a balanced and sincere way.”
There are also differences in the work culture. “The culture is very hierarchical. There’s the head coach and the assistant coach and you sort of have to go through a process to get to me, which hasn’t sat well with me – I open the door to my office so you can come in all the time – they’re very hierarchical and respectful, which I think comes from the typical Italian family setup.
“The other thing that’s quite interesting is that I am one for saying if you’ve finished your job you should go home and get out of here because obviously football isn’t a nine to five job. But a lot of them would stay to simply show me that they’re here and I’ve tried to change that.”
Montemurro is also honing his ability to manage upwards. “I wanted to learn the political landscape of football in Italy and that of Juventus. I need to know who the people are who will get things done. It’s understanding the mechanisms of the way it works politically,” he says. “But I haven’t changed my style or ideas, it’s just having that understanding of where things fit in, and where things are, and understanding historically where we’ve come from so we don’t make those mistakes again or so we can use those things for the betterment of the group.”
Instilling belief
Juventus Women was founded in 2017 and has won Serie A in each of its five season’s competing in Italy’s top tier, including an unbeaten campaign last season. The next step is maintaining that dominance at home as the teams around Juve strengthen as well as competing and making further inroads in the Uefa Women’s Champions League.
The club’s Sporting Director, Stefano Braghin, saw Montemurro, whom he met when Juventus played a practice match with Arsenal during their WSL title-winning 2018-19 season, as a missing piece of the jigsaw.
“It’s a different project here” says Montemurro, who spent four years at Arsenal. “Juventus is a project of growth in Europe, but it’s also a project of growth in Italy. Yeah, the club still wants to maintain that level in Serie A, but now it needs to be doing what it needs to do in Europe.”
He also wants to play a role in the growth of Italian women’s football, the top tier of which is fully professional for the first time during this 2022-23 season. “I want to create something that a lot of clubs can use as a template to say ‘this is how we will grow and get better so the game grows’.”
Last term, Montemurro’s team dominated at home and emerged from a tough group in the Champions League that contained English champions Chelsea and German side Wolfsburg, both of whom would go on to claim their respective domestic titles last season. Juventus drew at home to the Germans and claimed a famous victory in Wolfsburg. They also held Chelsea to a goalless draw in London, another eye-catching result that would help to secure their route to the quarter-finals.
Eventual champions Lyon would eliminate Juve over two legs but it was a creditable campaign, especially given that Juve shook off an early defeat to Chelsea in Turin to progress from the group.
At the outset, however, Montemurro noticed an inferiority complex in his players. It may have been born from the collective memory of heavy defeats in the past. “My players just felt inferior,” he says. “It was just ‘we’re not good enough, we’re inferior, we’re just not to that level’. Slowly it was just about helping them to believe. I would say, ‘you are at that level, you can do the same. There will be games that you lose and games where you win, that’s just how it is, but the reality is that we did it on the park’.
“We did it every day on the park and what I would do is, in the introduction of the way we wanted to play, the things we wanted to do, I would just show them, ‘you’ve done it. You’ve played out from the back. We’ve created these goal-scoring opportunities’ and it reignited the idea that ‘you are Juventus, most of you are playing for your national team, why are you so scared of Chelsea or Wolfsburg? They are in the same position as you’. I made them believe, ‘hey, we’re going to go out there, we’re going to play our style of football; the style’s going to be important for gauging where we’re at and you’ll see that you can be competitive with the likes of Lyon, Wolfsburg and Chelsea’.”
It remains a work in progress but he can see the difference, even in training. “In pre-season, just to give you a simple example, just doing rondos. When I got here last year that ball’s going out and people couldn’t even put two passes together; a simple 5 v 2 or 4 v 2 in a square. Now it’s second nature like they’re drinking a coffee. They’ve seen it themselves, they’ve seen the improvement, technically, tactically, but also mindset and believe going into these games.
“The good thing about it is that Serie A this year will be very competitive. Inter have invested, Roma have invested, Milan have invested, they’ve all brought in some big players. So we’re going to be up against it.” It is going to make Juve’s life harder at home but, as he admits, it will also force Montemurro and his players to ensure they are good enough to stay ahead of the pack. “It has to go that way.”
Balancing challenge and support
Montemurro explains that the strong links between Juventus’ academy and its first team have smoothed the transition of his younger players into their first-team environment. There are, however, steps he can take as Head Coach to ease that process even further.
“The first thing to do is to give them the opportunity to make mistakes,” he says. “So it’s OK that you made a mistake, you can make errors. That’s fine. They shouldn’t feel overawed. So get them to find a level of comfort to be who they are, that’s the first thing.
“The second thing is that it takes a bit of time to get used to the high tempo rhythm. The rhythm and intensity is just a little bit higher and that’s when they start to shine. Once they get used to the tempo and the rhythm of the way we do things, then usually they can relax and start to play. So one of the first things I told them is that it’s going to take time to get used to the tempo and you can make mistakes.
“The third thing is then getting used to the attention to detail, whether they’re in the gym or on the park because maybe in youth or academy level they were able to get away with things, the attention to detail is very important whether you’re doing a squat in the gym or you need to receive the ball so that the next pass is quick. That attention to detail is difficult and the problem is they focus so much on the detail that they probably make more errors because they’re not up to the tempo. It works hand in hand. You’ve got to assess it in a realistic time frame. If you expect young kids to come in and kill it straight away it doesn’t work like that. It’s about understanding where they’re at. It’s an exciting time for young players because there’s a lot happening and there’s a lot of talented players out there.”
How does he get to the bottom of what makes them tick? “That’s the job of the leader and coach, to find out what triggers them – what are the words or the phrases or the visuals that they need? The funny thing is that it sort of happens organically by just going up to a player and asking, ‘how did you find it?’ Some of them will say ‘yeah good, no problems’ and you know they’re the ones that you probably have to back off and give them more visual info. And during a session, you might go and ask a player ‘how did it go?’ and it’ll start a discussion with you and you work out, ‘OK, maybe I’d better show her some visuals, we’d better just get down to the heart of a couple of bits and pieces’.
“I think that’s one of the most important jobs in modern sports leadership. Just to understand what communication level is needed to affect the player and what they want. They’re all different. Some are on the pitch learners, some of them just don’t get it and need visuals on the computer screen drawn, some of them don’t even want to be spoken to.”
The growth of the women’s game has seen the demands on the players away from the pitch increase concurrently. “We’ve got all these things now which, unfortunately or fortunately – I’m not sure where to go with that one – is starting to take precedent, starting to take focus off what our core work is and that’s why there’s this return to football. ‘Is that related to the way we want to do things? That’s not related to the way we want to do things. Let’s park that and get back to what we need to do’. It’s a difficult one because we don’t know where all this other stuff is going.”
Nevertheless, Montemurro wants Juventus to be in the vanguard. “I hope the game continues to innovate, I hope we coaches continue to innovate, be creative and challenge each other and I want to be challenged by coaches, I want to be challenged by everyone around me, and I hope we keep challenging each other instead of being a little more guarded about what we do.”
Leaders Performance Advisor Dr. Lorena Torres Ronda calls on her own experience to provide some steps that all organizations can take to create inclusive performance environments.
Definitely yes – and it’s not just me saying it.
There is growing support from the scientific community as well as empirical evidence from a range of different fields that diverse work environments are more innovative, creative and rich in productivity.
As Chris Hirst points out in his book No Bullsh*t Leadership, ‘a 2015 McKinsey report on 366 public companies found that those in top quartile for ethnic and radical diversity in management were 35% more likely to have financial returns above their industry mean… Diverse teams outperform those that aren’t.’
It often feels easier said than done, as creating or fostering a work environment rich in diversity requires that we know the sociological foundations of inclusion to really be successful in attaining an effective high performance environment. Firstly, let’s define and clarify some basic concepts.
Diversity means that “everybody is invited to the party” – you hire diversly, regardless of gender, race, skin colour, social background, physical ability, sexual orientation, religion, ethnicity and so forth. But being invited to the party doesn’t automatically mean you feel seen, heard and valued – all characteristics of feeling included – but the ultimate feeling of inclusion is the feeling that you belong. ‘Belonging’ means that you are in an environment where you can be your authentic self and everybody accepts you as you are. In order to foster an environment of belonging, you need to treat people (and be treated) with equity, with fairness, where everybody is given what is necessary to achieve similar or the same results.
Treating people equally (equality) means treating everybody the same, and while it might sound counterintuitive, treating people as individuals – which often means treating them differently – and providing an environment of security and support, where there is a sense of acceptance, inclusion, and identity of the members in a certain group, is fair.
A final point on this topic, as I wrote elsewhere, if you were intentional in your efforts to hire, say, female or African American staff but it turns out that those individuals attended the same schools, learned from the same professors and mentors, went to the ‘same book clubs’, or people who surround themselves with people with the same ideas or who will support them in their ideas (people enjoy being reinforced in their own ideas!), probably won’t bring functional, cognitive diversity to a group, but superficial diversity.
Diversity can come from the traits listed above, but also importantly from deep-level diversity: personality, values, abilities or beliefs. These characteristics might be accompanied by challenges and biases that must be taken into account and managed when conflict emerges.
What helps to create an inclusive environment? What is needed? What is the correct strategic approach?
We don’t want it to be a box-ticking exercise. There is increasing awareness that we live in a professionally more globalized world. Today the geographical location is not a barrier, you can find an Australian in America, a European in South America, an American in Asia, and all possible combinations. Finding women in high performance is already more difficult, especially in certain jobs or leadership positions. Unfortunately, the promotion of inclusion of races, gender, sexual orientations or religions in a community traditionally dominated by white males is not a norm yet. And sometimes the driver of diversity is reduced to a box-checking exercise. But if we work in an organization that is going to bet on diversity and innovation, what helps to create those inclusive environments?
An inclusive environment promotes the idea that everybody is heard and we all have a voice. We listen and we learn; and in those conversations there is a room for productive disagreement and free exchange of ideas. But in order to facilitate this, it is imperative to create a trusting and safe place, be open to different approaches, and understand that different people feel safe in different ways.
One exercise one can do, before thinking about tools to approach diversity and create an inclusive environment, is to do an exercise in establishing your awareness of your unconscious bias. What does this mean? Influences from our background, cultural environment and personal experiences we might have can lead to subtle, even unintended (unconscious) judgments. But they are there, they are the product of learned associations, social and cultural conditions. Therefore, practicing being self-aware of those possible biases, and being aware of how our words and actions might affect others, or even raising awareness of others biases, is a first step towards creating an inclusive environment. ‘Practice being an advocate to encourage open, candid, and respectful conversation to develop relationships built on trust. An inclusive leader is self-reflective and attendant to the feelings of others. They’ve also “done the work” – they’ve attuned all manner of different intelligences (gender, cultural, generational) that helps them understand difference’ (ADP, 2022).
Gardenswartz & Rowe, Diverse Teams at Work (2nd Edition, SHRM, 2003). Internal Dimensions and External Dimensions are adapted from Marilyn Loden and Judy Rosener, Workforce America! (Business One Irwin, 1991).
Steps that can be taken to increase the number of female coaches and practitioners
I want to bring to the table something that has happen to me, when applying to a job or even when I had to hire people while working at an NBA franchise. To cite Chris Hirst again, ‘diversity is an undoubtedly desirable outcome, but when considering any individual hire or promotion, you have a duty, even moral responsibility, to hire the best possible person for the role, irrespective of who they are’. I have used almost the same exact words with my supervisor when expressing doubts about three candidates for a specific position, an argument that can be perceived as a less diverse team. On the one hand, we want the best candidate possible, and on the other hand, how are we ever going to get jobs that have been traditionally held by white males if we are never going to be given or give the first chance?! How do we know if a woman can be head coach in the NBA, or the performance director in a LaLiga team, if no one is given a chance to any women?! Of course we don’t have the experience – it’s almost impossible to obtain the experience! And the few that are sometimes afforded that opportunity face the pressure to excel, which is fair in itself, but are we being treated and evaluated as fairly as our male peers? How can we increase the number of female coaches or practitioners? Just give them the chance! And then, create an environment of fairness, and protect that environment, leaders, management, and staff. And the elephant in the room: remove those who are in the way and are the biggest barrier to change. Eliminate nostalgia from your organization. Make decisions to promote a diverse and inclusive workplace. Period.
How can teams better understand the atmosphere within teams – what data or feedback can you collect? Focus groups? One-to-ones?
I read the following in a book, and I thought ‘well, I wish my former supervisor, an apparent leadership expert, had read this sooner’. It read: ‘what you need to achieve change is for every member of your audience (AKA staff) to spend ABSOLUTELY NO TIME AT ALL thinking about how others need to change and to think only of the change they themselves will make’. I have experienced myself the huge damage that can be inflicted when people are given the opportunity to anonymously rate your colleagues. Rather than that, work to promote safe environments for having difficult conversations if needed. This enables everyone to be clear on what everybody else needs to do better.
Behavioral change happens when the individual grasps the need for them to change, and understands the benefit of that change. It is true that change is a challenge for most people; getting out of our comfort zone, the feeling of losing power or even fear of what might come, the feeling of being threatened by others’ success (huge in our sector!) – all are barriers to overcome on the path to future team success. Rather than allowing themselves to be inspired by others, some people puts barriers to new forms of thinking and behaving. If you are brave at heart, embrace the change rather than fear it. If you are able to adapt to challenging personalities, such as some players and coaches, why not be open to promoting diversity for the greater good of your team or your organization?
Lorena is one of six Leaders Performance Advisors, a group of leading performance thinkers providing more subject expertise to our member-only content and learning resources. To find out more about all our Performance Advisors, click here.
